Sunday, July 24, 2005

the story behind the horsewhip smacking case


You may remember a while back there was a case where a woman was acquitted of child abuse after hitting her son with a horse whip after he "waved" a baseball bat at his step father's head.

As a result Children's Commissioner Cindy Kiro is using this case as a justification for repealing Section 59 of the Crimes Act without publicising the facts of what happened.

I have decided to tell this story because the media and the Children's Commissioner have distorted it. I got my information from an interview with the mother concerned, and if anyone asks for a copy of the full interview, I`ll email it to them. Prime Minister Helen Clark has asked for and recieved a copy. I didn't do the interview, and I can't name anyone due to final name suppression. The Herald quoted the woman as telling her social worker that her son was "a little arsehole". He was, afer all, causing trouble at school, kicking in walls and swearing at teachers, resulting in his mum caning him.

There's more to the story than meets the eye. It's a long post but I`d like you to read it.

Firstly, the child didn’t get hit with a horse whip. Secondly, nothing was said about the activities of Child Youth and Family social workers involvement in the case. Finally, CYFS promised the woman's son back if she won her case. She won, but does not have custody of her child as CYFS are refusing to return him home to her because they say the child was assaulted and therefore she is an unsafe parent.

But here's the story.

The boy was asked to assist his stepfather to get some firewood. He refused.Apparently he did not respond well to the man's encouragement to help. Instead he picked up a baseball bat and swung it full force at his stepdad's head screaming that he would give him permanent head injuries. Fortunately the man was able to block the blow and disarm the boy. If he had not seen the baseball bat coming, the consequences could have been dire, as the impact to his head could have seriously maimed or even killed the man because he has a closed head injury from an accident some years ago.

So his mother disciplined hom with a riding crop because she couldn't find anything else. Not a horse whip. A horse whip conjures up visions of a long stock type whip, where a riding crop is a small item, about 18 inches long and is designed to give a short sharp sting with no seen physical effects.

The discipline was controlled, over with very quickly and was very effective, according to the mother. Afterwards the boy gave his mother a hug and apologised for swinging the baseball bat and threatening his stepfather.

The special education services (SES) worke at the boy's school noticed a change in the boys behaviour at school and asked why there was such a positive change His mother told him about the disciplining. The SES worker told the boys mother that she was not allowed to discipline in this manner, that it was against the law even to smack - which of course is rubbish.

The SES worker then contacted CYFS. The following is part of the interview.
Two social workers from CYFS arrived at my place of work two weeks later and in a very high handed and officious manner insisted on "interviewing" me in front of my staff and members of the public, telling me I was abusing my child. They clearly had made up their minds that this was the case before even talking to me.

They kept on insisting that it was against the law to hit a child, including smacking, and quoted 'violence begets violence'. When they refused to leave, I left work myself and drove away as I was managing a tourist attraction and it was entirely inappropriate for them to even attempt to conduct an interview there.

The social workers took exception to my abrupt ending of their power trip and rang the police. They filed to the family court - without even investigating fully the circumstances of discipline and without offering the family any support - an exparte order seeking interim custody for my son on the grounds that he was being physically abused. The exparte order meant we were not even informed they were doing this and we had no right of reply to defend it. The court awarded CYFS interim custody of my son, based on the hearsay of one social worker alone and without calling evidence to substansiate the social workers claim.

The social worker then set on a campaign to get the police to prosecute me in order to bolster his claims of abuse."
>

The Police interviewed her. Charges were not laid for some five months after the interview and as I understand were laid with a great deal of reluctance and under pressure from CYFS. Even though the court of law has ruled an assault did not occur, CYFS are refusing to return her son on the grounds he was assaulted. He is currently living with a relative.

The nother says she has spoken to four different CYFS social workers about smacking and they all hold and maintain the belief that it is against the law to smack children, and that smacking constistutes violence and violence begets violence. She said she was told that it is their policy to remove children from the care of parents who smack to discpline

She said it was interesting that the social worker carried out an interview with her son without her knowledge and without offering him any adult support- which is in direct breach of the Children Young Persons and their Families Act. This social worker has put an application before the court for a declaration in respect of two of the woman's other children on the grounds that they "could be at risk of being abused" even though these children and family members have made it clear that this is not the case. When the family won the court case they were excited. Remember CYFS had indicated he would be returned if the case was won. That still hasn't happened.
After we won the court case the social worker rang the care giver and told he my son was not allowed to come home with me and I was not to be picking him up. He further told the caregiver I was not allowed to see my son.

He also as recently as last week physically tried to prevent my son from talking to me on the phone by trying to snatch away the phone as it was passed by my son’s caregiver to my son. I over heard him yelling "I SAID NO". This action frightened my son so much that he subsequently ran away from the social worker and rang me from a house where he felt safe. The person who owned the house described him as obviously frightened and crying.The social worker has denied me access to my son, without having a court order to support this, and even though I have had extended unsupervised access to him previously this year, which have included him staying with us for several days at a time and not wishing to return to his caregiver.

The social worker has even stated at one point that I am an evil woman because I stood with my hands on my hips and glared at him. Am I expected to be pleasant smiling and happy because he has wrongfully removed my son from my care? Get real.

The social worker has also told my son that I broke the law disciplining him the way I did. This has not only undermined my parenting in front of my son but it has caused a lot of confusion to my son. CYFS should have withdrawn their applications immediately upon the ruling of the jury and they have not. They should have retuned my son home and they have not. How can this be? CYFS are flouting the law in doing this

It is clear from the interview that this discipline was controlled discipline, not abuse. Cindy Kiro, however has a different view.
"They (do) it in moments of anger. This is often about parents venting their anger … not about teaching children how to behave properly."

Of course, she won't comment about the involvement and tactics of social workers in such cases.

an update is HERE

22 comments:

ZenTiger said...

Thank you for that post.

Conversations I have had with the anti-smacking brigade believe that CYF staff will never abuse their power.

They also believe they can make better decisions than a judge.

NZ is taking the same path as Sweden, and the number of children removed from parents is over 20,000 with long legal battles trying to get their children back. It can take years, and they grow up so much in that time.

Remember also the recent case where children removed from custody were given to a person the parents and local priest argued against.

CYF staff ignored them, and the child was molested.

There are many more cases that are kept quiet. When you have some-one's children, you have the ultimate leverage.

The system is broken and Labour want to make it worse. A 30 million dollar families commission (with another 15 million advertising budget) is a total waste of money.

Bad ideology, no accountability, mis-directed funding and too much desire to effect a widespread criminalisation of parents using legal tools, rather than a human focus on the problem groups.

Improving processes and quality of front line services and front line family support is vital. The way Labour are directing this is beyond a disgrace - it is a key shift towards break up of the family.

Gooner said...

Well done Dave. That's great stuff.

Lucia Maria said...

Right. This organisation is corrupt and ought to be immediately disbanded and put under investigation. Every social worker ought to be investigated, who knows how bad it is. If they were laundering money, the full force of the law would come down on the people responsible. But lying to parents, telling them smacking is illegal and then trying to use their powers to effectively kidnap the children! I'm horrified!

Anonymous said...

I have close friends whose dealings with CYFS show the same attitudes - arrogant "we-know-best", making up their minds before seeing any evidence, then ignoring any evidence that show anything to the contrary. Needless to say their case was completely unfounded, although they still won't admit it.

They also seemed incapable of believing that parents might actually love and care for their children. That concept doesn't seem to exist in the CYFS universe.

I'd be interested in seeing the full interview if you have it.

Ashley Clarkson said...

Thank you for posting that, very enlightening. Have you offered this to the opposition? They might be able to do something for her.

Swimming said...

Greg email me and I`ll email yyou with the transcript, email address is on my profile and I need ytour email address to email you unless you provide your email address in comments

Anonymous said...

David
I have a real problem with your post, if the facts as you state them are true then,

Firstly, the CYPS worker needs to be prosecuted and jailed as what he has done and is doing is the same as kidnapping.

Secondly, one would expect someone in the position of Cindy Kiro to be fully briefed on a case before commenting least of all getting involved in any way.
If that is the case she clearly is not capable of making informed decisions in this area and should resign or be sacked.

Thirdly, if the facts are true then the parents of the boy should be able to sue the individuals and the state for this breach of human rights to both themselves and the their other children.
Note I said children as the other two have been kept away from their brother in having a whole family living together.

This is assuming all the story is verifiable and true.
best
Mike

Anonymous said...

Excellent work in bringing that to our attention, Dave. It is scandalous what is going on in the name of child protection. The propaganda that smacking is already outlawed has been spread for years now to youngsters at school, who then go home and defy their parents to hit them. This is simply emotional blackmail, but done in the name of "child rights".

Now, however. the anti-violence activists are going even further : they have started a movement called First Strike, which seeks to link violence to humans with violence/cruelty to animals! On the web under AWINZ -Animal Welfare Institute of New Zealand - it is there for all to see, including the involvement in it of CYFS!
(http://www.animalwelfare.org.nz/fs/working_group.htm)

I was first alerted to this astonishing new trend in anti-violence activism by an interview done by Paul Henry on Radio Live with Plunket policy analyst Cathy Kern on July 11th. It followed a N.Z.Herald item on 9th July headed "Cruelty to animals by children could indicate sexual abuse.
Kern explained : "There is an initiative that was in America and the UK years back, but now more recently, 2002 at UNITEC in Auckland, and it's called "First Strike", and that is a group of animal welfare and child protection professionals, who are looking at ways that we can start to address this problem in N.Z., given proper funding and levels of awareness." (emphasis added. Note her air of certainty that there actually is such a problem to be tackled and addressed)
So we appear to have here another ideologically driven, anti-family, mad-cap crusade by anti-violence zealots. At the above URL one sees that AWINZ is facilitating the First Strike campaign, whose objectives include cultivating "a public attitude that recognises violence without separating animal violence from human violence", and establishing "practical support systems…..for fostering the animals taken from violent situations by women and children taking refuge" (sic. Note : no allowance made for male victims)
The Working Group line-up is especially interesting, listing an astonishing cross-section of personnel (including some e-mail contact details) from organisations such as Child Youth & Family Services (CYFS), Auckland SPCA, Royal N.Z. SPCA, Waitakere City Animal Welfare, N.Z.Veterinary Association, N.Z. Police Family Violence Unit, Women's Refuge, MAF - Ministry of Agriculture and Forestry, Animal Control Services, N.Z. Companion Animal Council, CPS Training, Intervet Ltd., DSS Animal Management, Domestic Violence Centre (Auckland) UNITEC School of Natural Sciences, and last but not least, family law practitioner Catriona McLennan, who has prepared a report on the progress of the first two years of First Strike in N.Z., from November 2002 - 2004.
So with this new trend, Sue Bradford and the wider anti-smacking brigade have a whole lot of new and strange bedfellows.
Barbara Faithfull
credo@surfer.co.nz

Anonymous said...

Hey, so I guess you all think that violence against children is OK. How can you show a child you love it buy beating the crap out of it?? I get physically sick when I hear parents boasting of giving their kids "the bash".

New Zealand has the highest child abuse rate in the world. Why do you think it is OK?

Anonymous said...

I think it's a shocking situation where a parents abilty to parent is undermined by "public servants". Good on you Dave for shining the light on this appalling injustice and power tripping civil servant. You have to wonder who they are serving? There is a HUGE difference between discipling your child for doing something wrong and "beating the crap out of it" and those who have difficulty seeing that may have serious developmental challenges of their own.
This may be a consequence of a goverment implementing anti-family policy and legislation so the government employees have picked up the totalitarian mindset that stomps all over parenting responsibility.
If our country continues with this sort of behaviour from government employees with impunity I see a very bleak future for New Zealand society.

This situation needs to be remedied otherwise children will learn the lesson you can do what you wnat to and not be concerned over any punishment your parents may be inclined to deliver for wrong-doing.

Swimming said...

Hey Millsy(otherwise known as Brendan)
Some people know the difference between beating the crap out of children and lawful smacking.Hope you never get to be called for jury service.

Anonymous said...

As one who has successfully raised 2 children with the ocassional smack (not abuse ) it amuses me that CYFS dont get involved in families where they should be yet manage to get involved in families where they have no place.Cindy Kiro and her ilk are the problem A bunch of interfering busybodies who make work for themselves and their fellow travellers and cause untold harm and misery to innocent people.They should butt out
gd

Anonymous said...

My rights as a parent predate the state, and role of the state is to uphold, not attenuate those rights. This is important to note, since many people today seem to think that their rights flow from the state.

The notion that one’s rights flow from the state and are therefore what the state says they are is actually fascism. The Nazi Party arrogated rights to the state in all spheres, including the ultimate control of children. To paraphrase Hitler’s well-known remarks on the subject of economic rights: "I want everyone to [parent] according to the principle: benefit to the community precedes benefit to the individual. But the state should always retain supervision and each [parent] should consider himself appointed by the state. It is his duty not to [parent] against the interests of others among his own people. This is the crucial matter. The Third Reich will always retain its right to control [parents]."

Hilary Clinton sugarcoats this precept in more innocuous terms: "It takes a village to raise a child." Such a statement, of course, ignores the fact that most people don’t want their children raised by a village.

These ideas fall under the generic label of "socialism." They have a dishonourable intellectual pedigree dating back to Ancient Greece and Plato’s "Republic," and lead straight as an arrow to the excesses of the French Revolution, Nazi Germany and a variety of murderous Communist experiments. In this view, mankind is essentially stupid and wicked. Fortunately, a few individuals just happen to be better, wiser, and kinder than their fellow men. They have a right, and indeed a duty, to ascend to power and nobly order everyone else about for their own good.

The state is my servant, not my master. The proper function of government in a free society is protecting citizens against force or fraud. Anything else is a misuse of the power delegated by citizens to their government to protect their natural rights to life, liberty and property. One such natural right is the liberty to parent as ones sees fit, subject to the protection of children against the excessive use of force or calculated psychological torment.

Except in clear and unambiguous cases of child abuse, the state has no business interfering in the parent-child relationship.

I would further like to feel confident that state agents such as CYFS and Family Court judges are mindful of the proper role of the state, but it's clear from reading your post that they are not.

Lucia Maria said...

Anon, the laws in NZ have changed so that CYFS and Family Court judges don't have to be mindful of the proper role of the state as it has been rededined.

We need to get the laws changed.

Anonymous said...

Hitting children is wrong, Do I have to track you all down and beat it into you all with an iron bar. If I see any of you hit your kids god help me, I will get an iron bar and there will be blood on the street. Kids should be protected from people like you who condone violence against them, and leave them with no one to talk to.

gazzadelsud said...

sigh there goes little millsy again, new zealand's most pathetic blogger - he hates violence so much he wants to beat us all with an iron bar.

If ever there was a case of a kid who SHOULD have been put into care, I think he has just self identified

Hinerangi said...

Fuck you're an odd one Millsy.

Anonymous said...

Millsy - how do you know some of us aren't children?

Are you still going to track us down and beat us with an iron bar?

Watch yourself, man.

Anonymous said...

Section 59.
I have read your posts and I am shocked that there appear to be a number of people who consider it OK to beat children and animals.

One correspondent talks about their "Rights as a parent". I am not sure a parent has rights but rather a lot of responsibility.

Yes, I was brought up in an age when children where beaten, and I was a parent when mild smacking was OK, but with the ovious violence around today we, as a community, need to do more to protect children. Joy.

Anonymous said...

Child protection lobbyists and the social services usually stress the importance of "protecting children from violence". This was one of the arguments used to justify the smacking ban in Sweden. Only six (6) of the 268 Swedish parliamentarians voted against the law. Three abstained. They had looked beyond the façade and found that there was a great deal of totalitarianism behind the law.

During the consultation period several important organs of the state e g the State Prosecutor, the Regional Prosecutor in Östergötland and others voiced their doubts and fears. For more info see THE EFFECTS OF THE SWEDISH ANTI-SMACKING LAW - CONSULTATION PAPER at
http://www.nkmr.org/english/anti_smacking_law_consultation_paper.htm. Some important organs of the state were very negative to the proposed law because of the indoctrination in violence that permeates the society in the Newscasts, films etc. Some even meant that the "administrative violence" that would be the result of the law should not be taken lightly. In fact, children who are removed from their parents care because mother or father has smacked them are severely punished by the state - because separation from their parents, siblings and other members of their family and their home environment is devastating for the children.

Here is a case that I am working on:

On October 16, 2003, the social council in the southern Sweden municipality Svalöv decided to take seven brothers and sisters into public care. The seven children were born between 1990 - 1999. Their father, Mats Nilsson, had been accused of "disturbance of peace" of his children, for eg pulling their ear, taking them by the back of their necks holding their arms or the like. He was arrested and confined pending trial. The mother, Charlotte Ydström-Nilsson, was not accused of any misdemeanors, yet five of the children were immediately placed in foster care. The two boys who were not taken immediately were at home because they were sick. One of them was suffering from ear-ache and fever and the other, the middle child who was born with myelocele thus an invalid confined to his wheel-chair, had only just returned from the hospital after an operation. The social workers promised the mother that they would let the sick youngsters remain with her but a few hours later they returned with an ambulance and transported them to separate destinations.

On November 27, 2003, the father was completely acquitted in the Criminal court. However, the social council proceeded in the care case and on December 18, 2003, three weeks after his acquittal, the Administrative County court ruled in favour of the social council and against the children and their parents. On April 21, 2004, the Administrative court of Appeal in Gothenburg confirmed the ruling of the lower court. The lawyers did not appeal the case to the Supreme Administrative court.

On June 30, 2004 the parents applied to the social council to have the care order lifted. The mother, who was then pregnant with child no. eight has had to keep out of the way of the social workers for fear that they would take the baby at birth and she has had to avoid meeting her other children. The baby was born in September 2004 and the mother moved to a neighbouring municipality, yet on January 19, 2005 the social council that decided to take the couple's seven children into care decided to take the newborn baby into care. However, it is most unlikely that they will ever find the mother and her baby.

The couple has since then been fighting the Swedish bureaucracy to get their seven children back from state care. The most recent verdicts concerning the family were delivered on March 8, resp. March 31, 2005 in the Administrative County Court and June 28, 2005 in the Administrative Court of Appeal in Gothenburg. In these cases, the judges ruled in favour of the social services viz against the parents and their children.

Do you really want cases like this one and many others that I have worked with in New Zealand?

The anti-smacking lobby claims that children of "smacking parents" are violated, will lose their self confidence and will become violent adults. Why the exaggeration? Isn't is strange that all those generations of children who have been smacked - and even beaten - are not necessarily mentally damaged or violent individuals? In fact, statistics show and a former head of penitentiaries in Sweden, Mrs AnnBritt Grunewald has confirmed, that the majority of the prison interns in Sweden have been in the foster home system.

Also, it must be taken into account that violence is used to resolve differences between individuals and States eg the war in Irak. And, for those who would like to believe that Sweden is a peaceful society because of the anti-smacking law should read Prof. Robert Larzelere's findings in Sweden's smacking ban: more harm than good http://www.christian.org.uk/pdfpublications/sweden_smacking.pdf

For more information about the Swedish/Nordic experiences see The NCHR's Article Archives section "Bringing up children and youths" http://www.nkmr.org/english/archives_4_bringing_up_children_and_youth.htm

Ruby Harrold-Claesson
Attorney-at-law
President of the NCHR/NKMR

Anonymous said...

Hi Dave

Found your blog after the news story tonight by searching under 'cyf'+'corrupt' and hey presto.. here you are!

It's not a good look for our fine army of social workers if these are indeed facts and not something else entirely. Most of what you say sounds verifiable, can't a complaint be made to the police?

I had the misfortune of flatting with a budding social worker at uni and I can see how it could happen. We even hosted a birthday party where 15 of them sat round and each took turns telling everyone else how terrible their lives had been, which was as much fun as it sounds. Combine that with the 'Gliding On' meets 'Damien' of Omen fame type of ineffective organisation the numerous MSD offshoots have become. Its scary.

I do not support violence vs children in any way but I also hope that, for the sake of NZ parents, this is more urban myth and anxst than true to life. I also hope we get to find out which it is because if it is true it has to stop.

Cheers for bringing it to NZ's attention,

From: A Happy Mama who doesn't beat her child, although he hits me ALL THE TIME!!:) (Lrge, enthusiastic 11mth old)

Anonymous said...

section 59 is a part of the Crimes Act, matters relating to physical assault are heard in the Criminal Court, and burden of proof is the standard. Care or Protection matters are heard in the Family Court, and a Family Court Judge, not a Social Worker makes rulings in the Family Court - with balance of probability (of further physical abuse) being considered. Dave's presentation to you is understandably weighted toward grievance against CYFS. Social Workers do not/are not able to make decisions to intervene in isolation. Any Supervisor would immediately correct misinformation/misunderstanding given by Social Workers that 'smacking' is 'illegal'. CYFS policy is 'not to support physically punitive methods of discipline'. Dave's presentation to you is a great example of how clever placement of a full stop or two etc can alter the meaning of a passage of text. At the end of the day any of you can tell the difference between 'smacking' and 'hitting'. Regardless of what you had done to you as a kid, it's got to stop somewhere. Accept the challenge if thats what it is for you.