Thursday, November 04, 2004

Russell Brown and those nasty evangelical Christians

Russell Brown over at Public Address normally writes good stuff, often on the ball.
His disappointment that Kerry did not win the election influenced his post today. He was drunk with disappointment. Blamed the evangelicals and called it a "Destiny Church vote".

It was nothing of the sort. Four million may have been the popular vote margin, but how does Russell know it was four million evangelical "Destiny type Christians". That’s like saying that the Christian Right and Pat Robertson influenced the election. Rubbish!

Perhaps he wrote it because he seems a little bit pissed off with the influence of evangelical Christians. Perhaps he sees all evangelical Christians as Destiny-types who are stuck on a time-warp of " moral values" and tele evangelism.
It's just that some people who are not Christians do have moral values - and up to 22% of those on both sides of the Christian fence voted on the basis of "moral values" actually voted Kerry. But could it be that in America at the moment, moral issues are a bigger priority for voters than the economy (20%), terrorism (19%), or war in Iraq(17%)? That’s what the exit polls indicate

Among those who cited moral values as their top priority, Bush defeated Kerry 79-18. This report notes that
The numbers were dramatic in Ohio, the state that ensured Bush's victory. Self-described white evangelical/born-again voters composed 25 percent of the Ohio electorate and supported Bush by a 76-24 margin. Jobs were the key concern for Ohio voters (24 percent), but moral issues was right behind (23 percent). Much like the rest of the country, these morally minded voters supported Bush 85-14.

I suspect moral values were more of a feature - yet I would agree that many of them would be evangelicals. Not all.

Ironically enough. I know so many evangelical Christians who can't stand Bush and would have voted for Kerry. Nasty evangelical Christians, aren't they.


Anonymous said...

Yes, but Sojourners sadly seems to have a minimal effect on NZ evangelicals, outside the enlightened
readers of Reality magazine, on its better days.
And anyway, Sojourners has also admitted as much.


Anonymous said...

Also, the Catholic Bishops in the US through their reminder that one must vote for the candidate most likely to be in line with the teachings of the RCC, also had an influence. Kerry was raised Catholic, but isn't one in reality as he doesn't suscribe to much of the doctrine, particularly abortion.

As for the fundamentlaist tag: so what? People who make these accusations would have us believe that the more liberal and vocal activists AREN'T rabid fundamentalists of a different sort. That of course is utter tosh.

The election came down to one thing: the people who voted did so based on completely opposed worldviews; one side says God matters, the other side didn't (despite what the Kerry supporters claim, God doesn't really matter to them).

Whether such voting patterns continue worldwide, remains to be seen.

Anonymous said...

Actually, most Catholics voted for Kerry.


Anonymous said...

I thought about that too.
Four million isn't a lot compared to the total electorate.

Four million Christians, I don't think so.
Maybe 4 Million pew sitters but Born again, No.
The Liberal press/quarter need someone to blame so it's easy (and lazy)to hang their hat on the so called right wing Christian vote.
I think that 4 million is made up of 4 million ordinary voters not necessarily actually Christians, but people who hold similar moral values.

They don't have to believe in Jesus Christ as Lord and saviour to hold those views, Nor indeed, in George Bush for that matter.
I think Kerry was such a poor alternative that the dems were blind sided by their own verbosity and the image their playmates in the big media protrayed that they missed the boat on the shift in the electorate.

So I would caution Mr Bush that He hasn't got a clear mandate for far reaching reforms.
The reality was that for 4 million people they couldn't stomach the Democratic Party and it's flip flop values.
People want certainty not flip flops.

Why do you think Helen keeps her hands hidden?
She's a master.

Anonymous said...

I've just read a much better account of what I tried to say in my previous post about Bush's victory.

it's at


Anonymous said...

Actually, most Catholics voted for Kerry.


Actually, according to the exit polling results on CNN's site the Catholic vote split 52% for Bush / 47% for Kerry.

Anonymous said...

Some of the catholics may have many of the same values as the so called Christian right but very definately not all.

Being a Catholic doesn't make you a Christian least of all a member of the so called Christian right.

Many people in the mainline denominations and some (but not to the same degree) in the pentecostal streams aren't actually Christians.

For a few it the place they are in on their journey but for so many others they are steeped in the denomination and it's culture and rules.

It's called religion, which is man's (terms) attempts to join God instead of relationship which is accepting Him on His terms.

You do well to know this as many so called Christians don't have Christian values or are patchy in what they adhere to or not.
Blanket assumptions blindside you if you're not careful, ask the Democratic party and the Liberal media.

Personally I would never vote for a person or a party that supported abortion on demand or lifestyle contraceptive abortions.

As Kerry flip flopped on that issue too many times in the last year alone, let alone his voting record in the last 10yrs, I am surprised he got as many catholic votes as he did.

Anonymous said...

NEW YORK, USA, November 4 (CNA) - Results show that 52% of Catholics in the United States voted to re-elect President Bush over Sen. Kerry in Tuesday's elections. 47% of Catholics voted for Kerry. On their website, Priests for Life reported that Catholics represented 27% of all voters in this year's presidential election, meaning that 31,065,769 voters were Catholics. Among Catholics who attend Mass weekly Bush won by 56% - 43%.

In two of the swing states, Florida and Ohio, the margin of Bush's win among Catholics was even greater. In Florida, Bush received 57% of the vote to Kerry's 42% and in Ohio the split was 55% to 44%.

In both these states, 66% of Catholics who attend Mass weekly voted for Bush.

Oh yes Craig, more Catholics voted for Kerry. You really do your homework don't you? Next you'll be telling us that oversea's opinion should determine any nation's election.........

Anonymous said...

Thank you for these stats
I hadn't the time to respond.
I just wish Kiwis would wake up to the social order planned for them by Aunty helen and her mates like Craig.

Have a great day