Monday, August 23, 2004

"Your hatred is intolerable"

Well, the Destiny march is over. Pictures are here and here and here

Georgina Beyer showed her face and spoke her mind to the Destiny supporters:

"Your hatred is intolerable, How dare you use the cloak of Christianity when you are imparting to your children more prejudice and discrimination towards people like me?"

Perhaps her hatred was intolerable, too. Sue Bradford called the Destiny black-shirters "facists".

So, anyone who disagrees with you and wants to exercise their democratic right to protest are haters and facists, are they?

And just because people are raising fists in the air or doing hakas, does that mean they are promoting hatred?

Still, there were unseemly events during the march, like "reporters" trying to thrust microphones into kids faces to find out what they thought about "standing up to the bad people."

At least Helen Clark didn't call the protesters haters and wreckers. Instead she commented on Brian Tamaki's offer to draft family legislation, "because I recall four years ago that he commented that having two New Zealand women leaders at the time was New Zealand falling for the work of the devil."

Helen Clark also noted that there were lots of kids in black tee shirts who were missing school.

However she didn’t comment about all the supporters of the bill who were missing school. That’s because she was glad they showed up. Many were from Wellington High School - the school that hosts Destiny Church's weekend services - predominately from the gay and lesbian group that wants Destiny kicked out of their school in the weekends, and aorganised a petition in which many students signed.

But these kids don't have a say as to who uses the school in the weekends - that’s up to the Board of Trustees who is happy to pick up the $600.00 paid by Destiny every week. But in order for a group to hire a school hall the contract says there "has to be tangible education benefits".

So what are these tangible education benefits - or doesn't it matter. Perhaps it’s a bit like the abortion laws that get flouted on just about every abortion where laws state that an abortion should only be done if it is detrimental to the woman's mental health. The laws are a farce.

But I digress. There has been a flurry of media releases pre and post march. The CHP's Ewen McQueen says this:
"Unfortunately many of our current political leaders believe the lie that they must be neutral about relationships. The Human Rights Act, they say does not allow us to discriminate. My answer to that is very simple. If the Human Rights Act does not allow us to do the very thing our society most urgently needs – to positively discriminate in favour of the institution of marriage – then the Human Rights Act needs to change.

Unfortunately some of our leaders are more committed to their ideological agendas than they are to facing the truth. They say we don’t have a problem with family breakdown in New Zealand, we just have increased diversity of family structure. 43,400 child abuse notifications is not diversity, it is a disaster, and it is completely unacceptable"

The Rev Margaret Mayman says attitudes from groups such as Destiny and CHP are not representatatve of the Christian church. But then, neither is hers. The only representatives of the church at Parliament today were the conservatives and liberals - the rest stayed away.

Dr Gill Greer, FPA executive director buddied up with the YWCA and AIDS Foundation in this release saying that the sexual orientation of a parent is irrelevant to the development of a child’s mental health and social development and the quality of parenting.
“It is a major concern to us that young people in New Zealand schools can be subject to disapproval, harassment, bullying and discrimination because of the standing of their parent’s relationship. Such discrimination on the basis of their parents’ status is in conflict with the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child

So how will a change of legislation alter bullying in schools? Someone tell me. And while you`re at it, name some poeple who have been bullied because of their parent's sexual orientation.

More people have been shouted at today by a politician due to their religious beliefs.


Anonymous said...

I personally do know some young people who have been bullied because of the sexual orientation of their parents. I don't want to name anyone personally without their permission.

If it’s ok for adults to endorse different laws relating to same sex and opposite sex relationships, and to treat the relationships differently, kids get the message that it’s ok to treat same-sex relationships as inferior.

Anonymous said...

"The only representatives of the church at Parliament today were the conservatives and liberals - the rest stayed away."

Why do you think they stayed away, Dave? Maybe they don't agree with Destiny. BTW if you've ever seen footage of the Nurembourg rallies you would see where the "fascists" remark comes from. The similarities are downright scary and probably deliberate. Attracts the redneck element don't ya know.

Human Rights law is for ALL humans, not just a few who fit your/Destiny/CHP "criteria". CHP obviously does not understand what that legislation is about.

Jesus preached love and tolerance.

Let's see you do the same.


Dave said...

Of course the others stayed away because they didnt agree with Destiny - or opposed Destiny enough to get involved.

In terms of human rights, marriage is not a human right. If it was they everyone would have a right to get married, including people who didnt have a partner.

In terms of legal rights, the civil union bill provides no legal rights that the other bill provides.

In regards to tolerance, you`d never see me participating at a Destiny event like yesterday,
(except as a commentator or reporter) too much hate and anger on both sides.

I share views with both the left and the right. However I do not agree with the way Destiny presents its message, not do i agree with the way their opponents compared Tamaki with Hitler - a bit of tolerence and unity is "much needed in our nation" to partially quote Tamaki.


Anonymous said...

Hey Dave never say never mate.
Life is funny & God has a sense of humour, if He wants you at a Destiny Rally He'll get you there mate.
I was at both rallies on Monday and Tuesday.
Where were you lot of wankers on Tuesday then?

Isn't racism a really really bad thing too?
Just because a load of Jews got all stinked up at their old peoples graves being stomped on don't think it can't happen to someone else later, or worse.

I suppose the reason the crowd was only 10% of Mondays was you all had such a busy lunchtime planned ehhh?
Those lattes just couldn't wait.

Or was it that the press wouldn't be there and also there were no wicked fundamentalist right wing argy bargy Christians to harang and stick your noses up at.
It's nice to have an enemy everyone hates isn't it?

What does that mean actually in today's world?
It seems to me it means to the liberal left/right "you must accept my choices and even encourage, affirm & assist me in my following them even if you don't agree with me.
If you don't agree with me you're a homophobe or facist or racist or another painting word that labels you as a non-person without a brain so we don't have to listen to you shithead".

Am I getting old or what?
I don't think all those old codgers who died in the 2nd World War would agree with the above definition of tolerance would you?
That's not what they gave their lives for.

Indeed I was having a beer and pate (Rodney Hides' special) just before Destiny got there and the Liberals/CMD/Rainbow/GLSB march came by and the staff of the Backbencher came to the windows to see and some were so pleased and supportive against the rabid right wing racists, others kept quiet.
Then I found out why there was no actual debate or exchange of comments that you find around a group of people.

When the Destiny crowd came, the manager (a fat white guy with a suit like me) remarked to the whole room including me "that they aren't real Christians anyway"

I hadn't got my food at that time so I didn't want to make a fuss as I had pictures of my pate with spit and hair on it.
So after I finished I went and sought the said fat white man out and asked him politely,

"excuse me, I couldn't help hearing your comment in there, about they not being real Christians and I wondered , what is a real Christian in your understanding?"

Whereapon He uttered those immortal liberal tones " I don't want to discuss this, That was a private conversation in there".

I said But you said it to the whole room including me"
He said "I don't want to talk about it, it's private".

So I asked him " tell me who do you consider a real Christian, Mother Theresa perhaps?"

Where upon he said "I don't want to get into this"

I said " Do you know where she stood on Homosexuality perhaps?"

again The little white fat man said "I don't want to talk about it, it was a private conversation"

so I left him with the rejoiner "don't make statements out loud in a public place next time then".
And left to join the Destiny crowd.

I might say that I think he is a coward, but his pate was superb and I do recommend it, beers a beer if you know what I mean.

If you visit The Backbencher you might ask him "what do you think defines a real Christian?"
I'd sure like to know if he actually has any reasoned thought processes that he is prepared to discuss.
Still can't win them all.

Anonymous said...

Brian Tamaki and his crew seem just like the Nazi SS except without the fancy uniforms and the stern German faces. Instead they just look like a bunch of rednecks.

Anonymous said...

Brian Tamaki and the Destiny crowd seem like Nazis because you want them to be, for that suits your purpose and worldview.
You see you aren't like them, you're nice and what you have to say has wisdom and is sensible.

But that's not true of them, they're Christian Fundamentalists, worse still they wear black and they aren't nice people so what they say is rubbish for who will listen to a Nazi.

Whether you agree with them or not, What does your body design say you are meant for?